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it was a great couple of days at the born again church tour in denver october 17th & 18th. thanks everyone who helped pull this off. here are some pictures capturing some of the moments shared together there. we hope that in the months to come that we continue to dream and experiment and live out some of our hopes for all the church can be.
photos by Jennifer Herrick here. more photos to follow.
this is written by jim henderson, the director of off the map & author of jim & casper go to church as part of january’s issue of idealab, their monthly ezine. we liked it so much we thought we’d pass it on to refuge readers, too. enjoy.
In 1543 Nicolas Copernicus published his treatise De Revolutionibus Orbium Coelestium (The Revolution of Celestial Spheres) and ushered into popular discourse the phrase “Copernican Revolution.” This Copernican Revolution pitted one powerful paradigm – it’s all about us, against another – it’s all about something outside of us.
When paradigms collide it can make for lots of excitement and provoke tons of resistance from those holding a vested interest in maintaining the status quo… As Tom Friedman the Pulitzer winning journalist once commented “those with power never think about it but those without power think about it all the time”. The unfortunate truth about history (thus far) is that when it comes to powerful paradigm change, the church has often been on the side of the resisters.
Peter Drucker said, “Every few hundred years in Western society there occurs a sharp transformation. Within a few short decades, society rearranges itself… We are currently living through such a transformation.” Apparently, Drucker believed that we’re currently living through a cultural transformation unlike anything that has happened since the 18th Century. That would include the American Revolution, the Civil War, World Wars I and II, the atomic bomb and even the Beatles! What if there’s a Copernican Revolution going on and we don’t “see” it, what if we’re on the wrong side again?
Exploiting Discontinuity
Napoleon made a name for himself by doing two things, (1) He chose to sneak up on his enemies instead fighting them head on and (2) he actually killed people. Prior to this, warfare in Europe was more like a professional sport. Generals were like attorneys. Feudal lords would hire the best Generals to lead their private armies into a battle where no one actually fought very similar to our judicial system where most cases are negotiated rather than litigated. Each General would attempt to gain an advantageous position on his opponent in anticipation that the loser would “sue” for an end to the war/game. No one wanted to waste their resources so once it became clear who would most likely win – they would break out the wine glasses, sit down and negotiate an agreement. By choosing to kill people Napoleon exploited the discontinuity and became the ruler of France (for awhile).
How can we exploit the discontinuity in our world and use it to advance this opportunity to free Jesus from the stranglehold religion has placed on him and once again take him public?
Why Do We Follow Culture
Where did the Jesus movement lose its edge?
How did we get in bed with power?
Where did we learn to follow rather than lead culture?
Where is Jesus in this thing we call Christianity?
How did we get into the religion business anyway?
Where could you take Jesus to church and not feel like you had to explain it to him?
In Transforming Mission, David Bosch writes “Jesus had no intention of founding a new religion”
Somewhere along the line the Jesus Movement got into the religion business.
This is so commonly accepted that I rarely hear it questioned and yet Jesus never said one thing about his movement adopting the world religions business model. What he did do was talk obsessively about advancing his movement (a.k.a. kingdom)
How did it happen that we went into the business of church and religion?
What happened to the Jesus Movement?
How did Jesus the Savior subsume Jesus the Servant?
Why do we Christians typically react to changes in culture rather than lead them?
Free Jesus.
Off The Map is the organization I started seven years ago to help take Jesus public again.
Free Jesus!
Sounds arrogant doesn’t it? But if Drucker and Bosch are correct then this is a great time to attempt such a rescue.
In case you didn’t get the memo…Jesus is not part of the public dialog on spirituality – We’ve ceded that ground to the Dali Lama, Wayne Dyer, Tony Robbins and Oprah.
What if Jesus was once again public property?
What if following in the way of Jesus involved more than right beliefs?
What if followers of Jesus led this movement and took the spirituality of serving public?
What if Jesus was seen as the founder of a movement that serves others – instead of one that judges others?
What if the Jesus movement got out of the beliefs business and back into the serving business where it all started?
Free Jesus!
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when we started the refuge last year we were a wreck. literally. a small group of us had left a megachurch wounded & disenfranchised but full of dreams of the way we longed to live out our faith. most days we woke up doubting ourselves, ready to quit even though we had just started. then, over a qdoba burrito & an hours worth of kathy’s tears, our friend tracy howe shared some of the fewest but most powerful words in the life of the refuge “you guys need to make some new friends…” she invited us to the off the map conference in seattle and assured us that she’d introduce us to a bunch of people who wouldn’t think we were crazy. we went. we were bold and introduced ourselves to as many of these new thinkers we could possibly meet. and we went home feeling a little more certain we were at least on the right path.
now, year 2 for off the map has marked just how far we’ve come. this year we brought 11 others with us to seattle (the conference was november 1-3rd). we actually knew people and we didn’t feel like middle schoolers at their first dance. people actually knew about the refuge and we don’t feel crazy anymore.
off the map is not the kind of conference where you get a spiritual high and then come home and don’t remember anything you learned. it’s hard to describe, but it is much more steady. solid. deep. it just sort of gets under your skin and makes you think. about God. about community. about living out the ways of Jesus in really practical ways. about the tension of our faith in these changing times. our team crashed on the floor of a wonderful church called vineyard community church in shoreline & spent a lot of time processing, laughing, eating & dreaming. we of course felt cool because our new friend jim henderson, the director of off the map, actually knows us and made us feel so loved (along with everyone else at the conference!). sage played his steel guitar in one of the main venues (we were so proud). kathy & karl got to share the refuge story at ken loyd’s “cheap church planting” workshop. there are so many highlights, but we thought those that went could share the takeaways so that those of you who wonder what’s going on in the big kingdom of God can get a taste, too. check out the many links, so many committed people living it out. enjoy & hope you’ll consider joining us next year!
amber lane: listening to some of the speakers, a passion surfaced in me that has long been dormant for social justice. especially within ‘religious’ institutions, and the question that I keep asking myself…how can I be part of something that upholds my values for social justice, and not part of something that opposes it either knowingly or unknowingly. i was reminded that this world is a hard one to live in if you’re not part of the majority, whether that be anglo-saxon, heterosexual, non-addicted, or thin. it is devastatingly difficult. given the difficulty we somehow make it through the day, maybe so we can continue to challenge the norms. whatever the reason, we are not alone and we can do this thing called life together.
christa romig-leavitt: “we will die with many, many, many unanswered questions. but we are paving pathways for our children in which they will live out christianity in beautiful and unimagined ways. in justice and love. In creativity.” … “we are dis-membered. what if we started re-membering.” the first quote is from a woman. the second from a man. i heard them both in Seattle. they make me think…let us all keep going. let us stay on this journey of question making to discover and re-member Jesus. let us do our best to stay dirty and resist the temptation to clean our hands. let us be okay with more questions than answers. let us keep loving.
john nunez: the thing that has stuck in my brain the most happened the first night. someone from up front spoke about a conversation they had with a woman while checking into their hotel. “if you were to come back to christianity/this whole church thing, what would you want/need?” she said acceptance. i thought how crazy it is that after 2000 yrs and a whole lot of talking, training, building, spending, discipling, memorizing, growing, claiming, praying about Jesus…the church/christians still suck at accepting. do we get forgiven and accepted mixed up? (check out what i mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance) and i thought….. when a christian does accept a ‘lost’ or even a ‘damaged’ person, what kind of pressure to change or “repent” comes with it? Jesus’ style of acceptance is probably so beautiful and elegant that when it’s really displayed in the world, it’s unrecognizable.
john parks: off the map was intriguing. it seems like we christians are beginning to experience the heart of God differently today. i started to step back and really look at my theology. faith is not so much about having all the right answers or having every base covered or even being able to defend my beliefs with the Bible. all that has a role but if I don’t love and accept people with actions just like Jesus did my testimony will always be a hollow reflection of God’s tremendous love for us. i was inspired to continue to lean into God’s love so that it can flow through me into His world and people everywhere.
jose escobar: loved the conference, but more so than anything, even though I got there late, i loved the time hanging out with everyone that went from the refuge. related to the conference, I liked the concepts and the diverse speakers, men, women, white, black, christian, and muslim, but it was also marked by a fairly non-diverse crowd. my favorite part of the conference though was the bridge service that we went to. i really loved the creativity, energy, and the music and songs (of which they wrote themselves). the service is really where i came out excited about we’re trying to do at the refuge. all in all, it was a cool weekend!
leslie kaczeus: sadell bradley of equipping ministries international read excerpts from the willie lynch letter and let’s make a slave in her workshop. i had never heard this and it sickened me, saddened me, and gave me a deeper understanding of the generations of brokenness and anger that our friends have lived through. she is an amazing woman. if you ever have a chance to hear her speak, don’t miss it! i also enjoyed the workshop on making friends with witches by phil wyman who is pastor at the gathering in salem, MA. he reinforced my thoughts about how normal people are that practice pagan religions and that we shouldn’t be afraid to build relationships with them. overall, it was just so incredibly inspiring to see so many people building bridges in ways and places that most of us couldn’t imagine would ever happen. thanks so much for inviting me along and making me feel so welcome!
karl wheeler: once again i experienced the confirming and marvelous joy of a bar set low. so low, that all who wish are able to march right over, head held high and dignified. after 30 years of conferences which should have all been subtitled “beat the sheep” or “wow, you are a sucky christian.” OTM is meaningful to me for its simple agenda of making friends, hearing from others, and setting the table of hospitality in all we do.
kathy escobar: one of the highlights for me was hanging out with our friends at the bridge worship service at on the house/church of the undignified in capital hill. agents of future rocks. loved chatting with jeff & jason from santa barbara’s uffizi mission project, deeply committed to their homeless friends & incarnational ministry with no programming. hearing rose swetman say “being missional is not having a cool service. who cares what band you have? i’m so tired of caring about what the meeting looks like. but what i care about is are you being the new humanity, and the presence of Christ in your neighborhood?” favorite quote: “people with power never think about it; people without power think about it all the time.” thomas friedman, quoted by brian mclaren who really is one of the most gentle but powerfully simple speakers i have ever heard.
mike herzog: i connected with brian mclaren and how the church is like music. the old way is like classical with exact notes lead by a conductor (a lead pastor). the new way is like jazz different people playing different notes in the context of a chart (shared leadership). both are playing the right music, just differently. and we could not have our jazz without their classical music. another thing about classisal vs jazz–there are no women, or native americans or africian americans etc. that wrote wrote classical, but many of the marginalized play jazz. my best take away was to practice what church is really about, being in real relationship with people.
sage harmos: i had the priviledge of playing music for OTM this year. my playing partner, jeff greer, is a young and intensely talented musician. he also is bald, has an orange goatee a half a foot long, and wears a kilt. my highlight was when a couple wearing western clothing (and the fellow had an american flag on his hat) thanked me and said how moving the music was for them. they come from a pentecostal evangelical church, and love to hear the steel guitar (usually country) in worship music. it had the spirit which they love in worship. they were so happy that we weren’t throwing the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to renewing our way of living out our faith. no one was “too cool” or “uncool” in our time together as conferencegoers. all were truly welcome.
we’ll end with this…from nate blegger’s blog, a conversation between he and ken loyd, the pastor of home, a new plant from the bridge committed to the homeless in portland. nate says, “i usually end up expressing to folks that the thing that gets me most is the “slowness.” “slowness! that’s the point!!” ken said. “you will be an instant success in maybe four or five years… you have to do things that are completely un-extraordinary. don’t do anything special or spectacular. this is how you will be legendary.” he went on to say that so many churches out there are trying to do extraordinary things. it is getting tiring for people. we just have to be normal and engage people where they are at with the absolutely normal things of life.”
other conference bloggers that linked to the refuge:
john smulo
(hey, check out john’s cool post from earlier this year “be like jesus” so good)
erin at decompressing faith
this past weekend we hosted in the denver area our friends jim henderson and matt casper for a series of conversations. jim is a committed christian (small “c” on purpose, his preference) and matt is an atheist. together they collaborated on a book project, Jim and Casper Go to Church, and in the process they became friends. what a concept.
participating in these conversations over the weekend, i felt something familiar to me, that instinct when someone does not see the brilliance of our position and how we tend to react. it really does not matter if it is an atheist, republican, democrat, or most commonly just my poor, sweet wife–my instinct when someone disgrees tends to be the same.
here’s what i consider the anatomy of a fight:
1. i present the undeniable facts or truth
2. april does not respond by acknowledging my superior intellect
3. i assume she did not hear me. if she heard me, she would just say “thanks, you are so smart”
4. so i end up saying the same thing, but a bit louder
5. april makes it clear that she can hear me, but she disagrees with me.
6. i repeat the volume step (#4), but with more volume
7. april now seems to be not repenting out of spite
8. i assume that if i ridicule her, then she will somehow see how smart my idea is.
you can see how this will end. i am hoarse and april is no closer to my reality. it happened each day this weekend as matt and jim listened to what was supposed to be questions from the audience. every time, someone could not believe that matt or jim saw life or the bible or faith differently, and of course all they need is more volume. or perhaps if we ridicule the atheist or progressive christian, then they will change. of course, this was played amongst many wonderful, thoughtful & sincere other questions as well, but the volume ones really struck a chord.
i loved the weekend, the conversation. i am trying so hard to turn down the volume so I can actually hear what those who see life differently have to say. what do you sy? what are some of your perspectives on the conversation?
the following is a reprint from september 07 vertigo: the monthly online journal of spiritual dizziness at the refuge. some of you have already read it, but the blog gives you a chance to comment on it, too. for those of you who don’t get vertigo, we wanted you to have a chance to experience it. to sign up for vertigo each month, click here.
this subject hits a place near and dear to our hearts–the ability to dialogue instead of debate, offer love & respect instead of judgement & condemnation when others don’t believe the same things we believe. being a Christian doesn’t mean you have to be a judgemental, arrogant jackass whose sole purpose is to tell others of their wrong thinking. ok, so some of you are saying “well, wait a minute, Jesus told us we need to speak the truth, share the gospel, not water it down.” we understand the dilemma, we feel it, too. and that’s the big idea here: how do we live out the ways of Jesus, really? can’t we learn to be better listeners, lovers of all people? what does this mean for the “church’? for the refuge? for each of us?
we hope you can join us as we dive into the conversation with the authors of the new book Jim & Casper Go to Church. jim henderson’s a Christian & former pastor from seattle and director of off the map. matt casper’s an atheist who lives in san diego. they traveled across the US together last summer visiting over 20 churches; their unlikely friendship and perspective on the Christian church will challenge us all. they are coming to the refuge on sunday, september 16th (we are hosting them at two other locations, too, friday night the 14th at CU boulder & saturday morning the 15th at pathways church). more details are on the web.
in preparing for their visit, we had a chance to ask jim and matt a few questions.
what motivated each of you to do the jim and casper go to church project?
JIM: After “winning an atheist’s soul” on ebay I was approached by George Barna about doing a book that featured myself and an atheist going to church together and writing reviews. Beyond that it just sounded like a very fun thing to try and pull off.
ps: you can read a little more about that experience here.
MATT: Ummm. I have been engaging people in talks about such questions-is there God? Why are we here? What should we do?-for years. In the book, you see that first I met Jason, who runs a home church, and we became friends. Then, through him, I met Jim, and we ended up writing a book together. I was motivated by the same reasons I am motivated to travel, to read as much as possible, to write music: I knew it would be a learning experience, and I knew I would have fun, too.
what was the funniest moment on your adventures together?
JIM: My funniest moments came when I knew what Casper was about to experience but I let it happen anyway and just watched for his reaction–like getting ambushed by a couple of Bible thumpers right after church or watching people’s faces twitch when we told them that Matt was an Atheist and I was a Christian and we were writing a book together about church.
MATT: Probably any time Christians made Jim more uncomfortable than they made me. Or maybe at The Bridge in Portland. It caters to a young hip crowd, who are typically a young, hip, and poor crowd. About midway into the service, they all started heading for the exits (a smoke break, I presumed). Seconds later, the collection buckets-trick or treat baskets that looked like Spiderman and Batman-came out. Suddenly, this mass exodus made perfect sense.
thinking back on your travels together, what surprised you the most?
JIM: How fair Matt was in his assessments of Christians–not a surprise as in a BIG surprise but as in a pleasant surprise. Also on how much we agreed on.
MATT: How much we agreed on. See? We just did it again! Also, Jim used to play in a few bands (”We were like ‘The Beatles’ of Mexico City. . . “). The biggest surprise was how quickly Jim and I established a rapport. . . within about a few hours, we were holding nothing back.
matt, if you knew nothing about Christianity but only went to the large churches to find out what would you say are some of the primary values of Christianity?
MATT: Believing in God, growing the church, converting people to Christianity. Sounds good when you read it like that. But I want to know: what good does simply believing do anyone? Belief is not an ends, it’s a means. And growing the church is not the same as helping people or doing God’s will. . . it’s more like a business objective. And when the talk was about converting people, it sounded like folks were more interested in putting “notches on their cross” rather than really helping people. . . “So, Bob, how many conversions did you land this week? Only 3? HAH! I converted 12 people! Boo-yaa!”
jim, if you were telling the average evangelical christian what is on your heart related to the “church”, what would you say?
JIM: If I didn’t have to open with a long list of qualifiers I would say: We’ve inherited a view of church that is flawed. It has been in the works for about 1700 years or more. It is called the religion business. We need to rescue Jesus from religion and take him public. We have an historic opportunity to nudge this thing back into movement phase if we can find the courage to follow in our founders’ footsteps and care more about how the missing see us than how the found do.
of course, your trip was limited to short visits into churches for an hour or so service. if you had really hung out in the community for a longer period of time, what do you think you may have discovered?
JIM: If we could have located them, we would have seen numbers of ordinary people serving non-Christians in ordinary ways. Unfortunately due to the economic pressures (as in justifying the pastor/speaker’s salary) put on churches there is little to no time to feature these ordinary people every weekend.
MATT: I would (and here’s my bias) probably have been disappointed as–based on some conversations I’ve had with more than a few Christians–a lot of people seem to think being a Christian requires little more than a 10% donation and an hour on Sunday. However, I did attend a small group at a local Baptist church where people talked about how to apply what they learned in that day’s sermon, but it was kind of meandering and no real “action items” came out of it.
what is the hardest part for each of you to understand about the other person’s belief system? what has surprised you the most about the others person’s beliefs? what has offended you? encouraged you?
JIM: I don’t find atheism hard to understand. I think it is a common sense and reasonable conclusion to come to if you are limited to measuring using our five senses. Further I think that a reasonable and maybe even a compassionate person (Christians call them humanists as if it is a dirty word) would certainly find it ludicrous to believe in any god currently sponsored by the major world religions. I mean they are pretty weird–including the religion known as Christianity. Having said that, I find atheism to be very difficult to believe in. I have had too many experiences in life that are transrational, loving and lovely to not raise my suspicions that there is a God out there who is at least as good as I can be (on my good days). Besides whether or not Jesus is objectively true or real I would like him to be and since I don’t find anything particularly compelling or interesting about atheism (which could also be a reflection of my lack of intellect) I will stick with the Jesus story and look forward to falling into his arms when this rat race is finally over. There just has to be a place called heaven–this place is just too screwed up. I can’t believe that this is the end. . . sorry.
MATT: This is the question we don’t discuss in the book, but purposefully. It’s not that we avoid it. It’s just that. . . well, what’s the point? If you want me to learn about your beliefs, show me how you live. Jim and Jason and all my believing friends know that I think believing in supernatural gods is really quite strange when you stop to think about it. But what encouraged me was hearing Jim freely agree (”Yes, I see how you think it could be very strange. . . “) and not try to tell me I was wrong. And I never said he was wrong, either, because, in my opinion, when it comes to what you believe it’s subjective and cannot be proven or disproven, so why bother. . . ? Ask questions, get to know a person, be free of an agenda beyond, pursue “I’d like to know what you think.” Nothing Jim did offended me as he answered every question from an honest place. Who could ask for anything more? I came away from all of this encouraged, because American Christians-in spite of the fact they worship one of the most peaceful men who ever lived-can get quite vitriolic and violent while discussing their beliefs. Jim didn’t and doesn’t.
what is the best thing you have learned from being in relationship with one another?
JIM: Being friends with Matt has made me a much more honest and grounded follower of Jesus. It has also motivated me to become a better practitioner of dialog and made me less afraid of difference. Our friendship is a unique gift and one I hope to cultivate for the rest of my life. I really enjoy Matt and especially enjoy his humor, kindness and interest in others.
MATT: Being friends with Jim has made me a much more honest and grounded atheist. It has also motivated me to become a better practitioner of dialog and made me less afraid of difference. Our friendship is a unique gift and one I hope to cultivate for the rest of my life. I really enjoy Jim and especially enjoy his humor, kindness and interest in others. Also, being friends with Jim has changed how I see the world. I was never an “angry atheist” like so many high profile authors we hear about today–Dawkins, Hitchens. et al. (I think they are “anti-theists” not atheists as their books seem to be about how there is no God, not about how living with no God can be a good thing.) I am now so much more in touch with how I see the world, and I remain as open as ever to the fact that I may be wrong about there not being a god. Some would say that makes me an agnostic, but the fact about gods is that no one can prove or disprove their existence. Thus, we never know (until we’re dead). And so, aren’t we all agnostic with tendencies toward either belief or non belief? I never asked myself these kinds of questions or crystallized these kinds of thoughts until I met and traveled with Jim Henderson. I am glad to know him.
the reason we invited you guys to come to denver is we believe in your project. we are listening. as Christians, we really want to be people who ask ourselves the hard questions–how did our reputation become so crazy? what has the church become? why is it so hard for us to live alongside people who disagree? we of course are hoping there will be a wide range of people at these conversations, across faiths, no faith, ages & experiences. so, as you prepare to come here to denver, what are you guys hoping the conversation will do for those who come?
JIM: Move them to connect with someone they think of as “the other” or as “an outsider” and become great question askers.
MATT: Help people return to treating faith as faith, and not as fact. In the book, I close with wishing people would stop staying, “Be a Christian or go to hell” and start saying, “We follow Jesus, and here’s what we do and how it has helped us.”
so, everyone, we hope this gave you a small taste of our conversation. we’d love to hear your comments. this is definitely one to invite your friends to. they will be at the refuge on sunday, september 16th at 5:30 pm. we are also hosting them at two other locations to give as many people as possible the chance to participate. . . CU boulder on friday night the 14th at 6pm and at pathways church on saturday morning at 10 am. for details click here.
