Comments on: 8 ways to shrink a church http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/ Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:35:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Laurie http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-928 Laurie Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:56:21 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-928 This article makes me want to jump and down. Of course, I drank espresso this afternoon. But seriously, what you guys are writing about is enormous. I left a great-looking missions organization in the summer because it only looked good on the outside. The least were still the least. The PR was great, but the programs were empty. It was enormously disturbing. Since then, God has been amazing me every day with his grace. Support has come from old and new friends. I am overwhelmed by his grace. This article makes me want to jump and down. Of course, I drank espresso this afternoon. But seriously, what you guys are writing about is enormous. I left a great-looking missions organization in the summer because it only looked good on the outside. The least were still the least. The PR was great, but the programs were empty. It was enormously disturbing. Since then, God has been amazing me every day with his grace. Support has come from old and new friends. I am overwhelmed by his grace.

]]> By: Elaine http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-457 Elaine Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:18:36 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-457 Clarification - in re-reading - I realize my closing statement "if the church/company can "pass" these first 2 items"... Well, I don't mean it as a pass/fail kind of thing - more of if these 2 qualities are "present" - then I can live in this environment. It is almost like needing air and water. Without these 2 elements, it speaks death to me. Clarification - in re-reading - I realize my closing statement “if the church/company can “pass” these first 2 items”…

Well, I don’t mean it as a pass/fail kind of thing - more of if these 2 qualities are “present” - then I can live in this environment. It is almost like needing air and water. Without these 2 elements, it speaks death to me.

]]> By: Elaine http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-451 Elaine Wed, 23 Jul 2008 23:45:53 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-451 Hi Kath, Just read this one...love it. As someone who attended a mega church for 15 years (on staff the last 5 yrs) - and is no longer attending there... I have to say you have it right. After trying to change the system from the inside, I finally realized they didn't want to change. It was mind boggling to realize they were harming staff and volunteers (and themselves) and the response was - "get in line with the program". Ugh! Your list of 8 really calls out the things I found lacking in the megachurch. I have 2 I would add - and there is some overlap here - but I find I begin with these 2 items in measuring every new church, company, association, etc. that I am thinking of becoming a part of: 1. Transparency - transparency in finances, in hiring and firing, promotions, who gets to speak, problems - NO SECRETS - 2. Dissent - is there space for people to disagree with leadership and each other - does leadership model respectfully disagreeing with each other and with others AND are open to admitting when they are wrong - and still remain friends, that the dissenter is not punished. If the church/company can pass these first 2 items - then I know it is a place where we can have conversations about your 8. thanks, E Hi Kath,

Just read this one…love it.

As someone who attended a mega church for 15 years (on staff the last 5 yrs) - and is no longer attending there…

I have to say you have it right. After trying to change the system from the inside, I finally realized they didn’t want to change. It was mind boggling to realize they were harming staff and volunteers (and themselves) and the response was - “get in line with the program”. Ugh!

Your list of 8 really calls out the things I found lacking in the megachurch.

I have 2 I would add - and there is some overlap here - but I find I begin with these 2 items in measuring every new church, company, association, etc. that I am thinking of becoming a part of:

1. Transparency - transparency in finances, in hiring and firing, promotions, who gets to speak, problems - NO SECRETS -

2. Dissent - is there space for people to disagree with leadership and each other - does leadership model respectfully disagreeing with each other and with others AND are open to admitting when they are wrong - and still remain friends, that the dissenter is not punished.

If the church/company can pass these first 2 items - then I know it is a place where we can have conversations about your 8.

thanks, E

]]> By: Lisa http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-225 Lisa Fri, 30 May 2008 22:17:16 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-225 I've got to admit, I do like to be entertained. But I have asked myself on more than one occasion, what is the purpose of setting the stage for this message series or retreat or vacation bible school, etc... other than eye-candy and a sense of excitement like I'm at an amusement park. I suppose the staff or volunteers who put it together are expressing their god given talents. That's a good reason. but I've never understood the "we must grow so we can build that cool new sanctuary..." mentality. And for that matter, I don't understand why during stewardship campaigns (which basically means...we're going under could you please us the 10% of your monetary income that God asked of you) usually feature some members of the church who say they didn't think they could afford to give and then voila...after they started giving they found that they had more money, magically. I’ve got to admit, I do like to be entertained. But I have asked myself on more than one occasion, what is the purpose of setting the stage for this message series or retreat or vacation bible school, etc… other than eye-candy and a sense of excitement like I’m at an amusement park. I suppose the staff or volunteers who put it together are expressing their god given talents. That’s a good reason. but I’ve never understood the “we must grow so we can build that cool new sanctuary…” mentality. And for that matter, I don’t understand why during stewardship campaigns (which basically means…we’re going under could you please us the 10% of your monetary income that God asked of you) usually feature some members of the church who say they didn’t think they could afford to give and then voila…after they started giving they found that they had more money, magically.

]]> By: The Thin Edge - 8 Ways to Shrink Your Church http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-214 The Thin Edge - 8 Ways to Shrink Your Church Tue, 06 May 2008 11:21:29 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-214 [...] so maybe everyone else in the blogosphere has see 8 Sure Ways to Shrink a Church over at The Refuge, but I just discovered it for the first time, so there’s a chance you [...] […] so maybe everyone else in the blogosphere has see 8 Sure Ways to Shrink a Church over at The Refuge, but I just discovered it for the first time, so there’s a chance you […]

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-126 Anonymous Sun, 02 Sep 2007 05:18:00 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-126 Stop grinding the ax! Your message is "come with us, we're not like them." Just leave it at "come with us."<br/><br/>It clear you've been hurt, lay it at the cross, and walk away. Jesus came so that we can have life and healing of hurts, not a life of hurts that we embrace as identity and as a reason to start a new church. Stop grinding the ax! Your message is “come with us, we’re not like them.” Just leave it at “come with us.”

It clear you’ve been hurt, lay it at the cross, and walk away. Jesus came so that we can have life and healing of hurts, not a life of hurts that we embrace as identity and as a reason to start a new church.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-115 Anonymous Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:22:00 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-115 Gee, if I knew there was a "market" for church shrinkage, maybe I'd be rich and powerful...and still in the ministry and still loving god. oh well. Gee, if I knew there was a “market” for church shrinkage, maybe I’d be rich and powerful…and still in the ministry and still loving god. oh well.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-114 Anonymous Sat, 18 Aug 2007 04:02:00 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-114 a year and a half, i have to admit, my desire was to have a mini version of the my old church. it seemed like it would be so easy to have 500 people and be on our way to the next mega church does. but something got in the way. a new dream. a bigger vision. a harder path. less security. but an AMAZING journey with real, hard, messy and broken people. what a journey it has been. if you look at the acts church, of Jesus' day, i'm thinking we look more like it than the mega church. they only thing different is we don't have that one person, in our church, that plays Jesus. i could never go back to just playing church. God's way always seems backward to our way of thinking. ie. "humble yourself to be exalted". "give up your life to save it". "the last shall be first". etc. maybe in His economy "less is more".<br/> mike a year and a half, i have to admit, my desire was to have a mini version of the my old church. it seemed like it would be so easy to have 500 people and be on our way to the next mega church does. but something got in the way. a new dream. a bigger vision. a harder path. less security. but an AMAZING journey with real, hard, messy and broken people. what a journey it has been. if you look at the acts church, of Jesus’ day, i’m thinking we look more like it than the mega church. they only thing different is we don’t have that one person, in our church, that plays Jesus. i could never go back to just playing church. God’s way always seems backward to our way of thinking. ie. “humble yourself to be exalted”. “give up your life to save it”. “the last shall be first”. etc. maybe in His economy “less is more”.
mike

]]> By: gartenfische http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/2007/08/14/8-ways-to-shrink-a-church/#comment-113 gartenfische Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:31:00 +0000 http://www.blog.therefugeonline.org/blog/?p=37#comment-113 amen. amen.

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